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	<title>Comments on: Vengenance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/</link>
	<description>no, really, there are some comics you really should read</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Julio Dvulture</title>
		<link>http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22786</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Dvulture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 02:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22786</guid>
		<description>Sure. You got me curious, I will surely keep reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure. You got me curious, I will surely keep reading.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22736</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22736</guid>
		<description>CalvinPitt:  Actually, he just tossed Xorn into the sun.  There was a SHIELD agent on hand to direct the blow, Ms. Marvel to do some energy thing and the whole affair was one of the few 'team' moments New Avengers had.  DON'T MAKE ME RELIVE IT!  I love the Sentry, don't get me wrong but I think Tony's just being a little spoiled on the whole thing.  Maybe it's because he's trying to get his tower back.  MAYBE HE'S BEEN ULTRON THIS WHOLE TIME!  

And...Woo, Julio!

Hear hear on a lot of points you made here, getting to the hear of the matter on superheroes and what's kind of missing from the storytelling equasion: 'Protecting and Serving', 'bigger than the sum of it's parts', etc.

But I have to hold back on the idea of any new generations.  That works FANTASTICALLY for DC; characters have families, sidekicks and successors and we get a sense of dynasty from them.  That is Superman were to fall (I know, shock of shocks), that someone else might be a new standard for Truth, Justice and the American Way that would still jibe if following the same formula or some derivation thereof.  

But Marvel doesn't have that click.  M2 Spider-Girl just barely pulls it off, because she's a fully interesting and fleshed out character first, a superhero second.  We remember X-Men by personality traits and then powers.  We know that Steve Rogers stood for an age of heroism that defines the concept of Captain America.

I can go on and on about my Legend and Legacy Theory(tm), but if I say one thing in comic blogdom, it's going to be my magnum opus.  Stay tuned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CalvinPitt:  Actually, he just tossed Xorn into the sun.  There was a SHIELD agent on hand to direct the blow, Ms. Marvel to do some energy thing and the whole affair was one of the few &#8216;team&#8217; moments New Avengers had.  DON&#8217;T MAKE ME RELIVE IT!  I love the Sentry, don&#8217;t get me wrong but I think Tony&#8217;s just being a little spoiled on the whole thing.  Maybe it&#8217;s because he&#8217;s trying to get his tower back.  MAYBE HE&#8217;S BEEN ULTRON THIS WHOLE TIME!  </p>
<p>And&#8230;Woo, Julio!</p>
<p>Hear hear on a lot of points you made here, getting to the hear of the matter on superheroes and what&#8217;s kind of missing from the storytelling equasion: &#8216;Protecting and Serving&#8217;, &#8216;bigger than the sum of it&#8217;s parts&#8217;, etc.</p>
<p>But I have to hold back on the idea of any new generations.  That works FANTASTICALLY for DC; characters have families, sidekicks and successors and we get a sense of dynasty from them.  That is Superman were to fall (I know, shock of shocks), that someone else might be a new standard for Truth, Justice and the American Way that would still jibe if following the same formula or some derivation thereof.  </p>
<p>But Marvel doesn&#8217;t have that click.  M2 Spider-Girl just barely pulls it off, because she&#8217;s a fully interesting and fleshed out character first, a superhero second.  We remember X-Men by personality traits and then powers.  We know that Steve Rogers stood for an age of heroism that defines the concept of Captain America.</p>
<p>I can go on and on about my Legend and Legacy Theory(tm), but if I say one thing in comic blogdom, it&#8217;s going to be my magnum opus.  Stay tuned.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Julio Dvulture</title>
		<link>http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22707</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Dvulture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22707</guid>
		<description>Also sorry for going off-toping and babbling so much, is just that the current of output of Marvel and to some extent DC is making think a lot of about this things and Bendis comics are problably the worst offenders, since you rarely see a thing that is fresh, or jibe well with the established characters... but I like Alias who was created by him, and probably wouln't mind much of what he does if happened to the Texas Iniatiave team or anyone else that I don't have a frame of reference already established. But as a depiction of the Earth greatest heroes it leaves a really sour taste in the mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also sorry for going off-toping and babbling so much, is just that the current of output of Marvel and to some extent DC is making think a lot of about this things and Bendis comics are problably the worst offenders, since you rarely see a thing that is fresh, or jibe well with the established characters&#8230; but I like Alias who was created by him, and probably wouln&#8217;t mind much of what he does if happened to the Texas Iniatiave team or anyone else that I don&#8217;t have a frame of reference already established. But as a depiction of the Earth greatest heroes it leaves a really sour taste in the mouth.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Julio Dvulture</title>
		<link>http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22706</link>
		<dc:creator>Julio Dvulture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22706</guid>
		<description>Heh, I can't agree more with the Eagle Awards when they nominated Iron Man villain of the year 2006. And that is a great hurdle someone need to overcome right there. Well at least they didn't used 6 issues of selecting pictures of members. But yeah, I agree that they don't appear "to protect and to serve" or even "to be bigger than the sum of its parts", two things that any good super-team has to have. I mean why the Sentry would need help from others even if he is the most inexperienced hero of all the time? Or why a God of War would want to be a foot soldier instead of a general? I think Marvel this day is all about the money shot, the big moment, and they think that all that things that goes before the shocking revelation or cliffhanger don't need much attention these days (funny that they gone from "we are telling long stories that don't need cliffhangers because they are meant to be read as bigger work instead of episodic material" to "we only need cliffhangers". That is sad. 

So here is a question: what comics do you think that could be benefit from actual change instead of the illusion of change? That is something that manga excels what with having real endings and all. Me, I would like to be reading some kind of Avengers Next that while comprised of sons and sucessors of the Old Avengers, had a style more akin to the original Avengers them the MC2 book that bears its names. Also, I would have liked to read the stories of the son of Superman battling Solaris, the tyrant sun a lot more than most of what I read nowadays (Kurt Busiek run excluded).

Is not that I need the characters to grow old with me, is just that if the characters could retire, we could have a more continuity free (and maybe even more new-reader-friendly) that only referenced its ancestors ocasionally, with real #1's issues that would mark a real starting point for new readers... instead what we have is a time dilation more and more bloated until needs some kind of reset button.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, I can&#8217;t agree more with the Eagle Awards when they nominated Iron Man villain of the year 2006. And that is a great hurdle someone need to overcome right there. Well at least they didn&#8217;t used 6 issues of selecting pictures of members. But yeah, I agree that they don&#8217;t appear &#8220;to protect and to serve&#8221; or even &#8220;to be bigger than the sum of its parts&#8221;, two things that any good super-team has to have. I mean why the Sentry would need help from others even if he is the most inexperienced hero of all the time? Or why a God of War would want to be a foot soldier instead of a general? I think Marvel this day is all about the money shot, the big moment, and they think that all that things that goes before the shocking revelation or cliffhanger don&#8217;t need much attention these days (funny that they gone from &#8220;we are telling long stories that don&#8217;t need cliffhangers because they are meant to be read as bigger work instead of episodic material&#8221; to &#8220;we only need cliffhangers&#8221;. That is sad. </p>
<p>So here is a question: what comics do you think that could be benefit from actual change instead of the illusion of change? That is something that manga excels what with having real endings and all. Me, I would like to be reading some kind of Avengers Next that while comprised of sons and sucessors of the Old Avengers, had a style more akin to the original Avengers them the MC2 book that bears its names. Also, I would have liked to read the stories of the son of Superman battling Solaris, the tyrant sun a lot more than most of what I read nowadays (Kurt Busiek run excluded).</p>
<p>Is not that I need the characters to grow old with me, is just that if the characters could retire, we could have a more continuity free (and maybe even more new-reader-friendly) that only referenced its ancestors ocasionally, with real #1&#8217;s issues that would mark a real starting point for new readers&#8230; instead what we have is a time dilation more and more bloated until needs some kind of reset button.</p>
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		<title>By: CalvinPitt</title>
		<link>http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22704</link>
		<dc:creator>CalvinPitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elegantmess.net/snap/2007/04/04/vengenance/#comment-22704</guid>
		<description>Well, there was that time that Sentry helped fight that Michael/Xorn character, and was really the only one who could even stand up to him.

But you make a good point about Tony saying Sentry isn't ready for the big time. If that's the case, why not put him on one of the lesser teams, like Wyoming's super-squad or something? it's not like they're going to throw any of the rookies from the new Initiative series on the Avengers, why the Sentry?

Tony Stark makes me sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there was that time that Sentry helped fight that Michael/Xorn character, and was really the only one who could even stand up to him.</p>
<p>But you make a good point about Tony saying Sentry isn&#8217;t ready for the big time. If that&#8217;s the case, why not put him on one of the lesser teams, like Wyoming&#8217;s super-squad or something? it&#8217;s not like they&#8217;re going to throw any of the rookies from the new Initiative series on the Avengers, why the Sentry?</p>
<p>Tony Stark makes me sad.</p>
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